Saturday, February 19, 2011

My Interaction in the Emergent Conversation


I am in a discussion on the website of Jonathan Brink. The coversation that is taking place can be found HERE. In the course of the discussion, a man named Joe was kind enough to point me to his blog to answer the concerns I raised. That blog may be found HERE. Here is my response to him, and what he wrote on his blog. What do you think? Is there anything I should have added? Was there anything that I was incorrect about? Let us now converse! Here are my words:




I did read your blog, and it was interesting, however, you perhaps didn’t
deal with the issues that would go against your thesis. Allow me to list
several, and you can decide if they are convincing.


First, when we look at 1
Tim 5:18 “18For the Scripture says, "You shall not muzzle an ox when it treads
out the grain," and, "The laborer deserves his wages." We notice something
interesting.
First, we have a quote used by Paul from Deut 25:4, but Paul also adds
Jesus’ words in Luke 10:7 and declares them both as “scripture.” From this we
learn that the words in the gospels were and are to be considered in the
totality of the Word of God. As we take the authority of the Mosaic Law and the
Prophets, so we should take the words of Jesus.


Second, we take 1 Cor 14:37
which Paul says, “If anyone thinks that he is a prophet, or spiritual, he should
acknowledge that the things I am writing to you are a command of the Lord.”
Paul, in his letter of correction to a church with many issues flat out says
that his words are the word of the Lord and should be seen as such. And in fact,
if anyone says that they are spiritual, they should acknowledge this fact. This
is yet even more truth that all of scripture must be seen as the Word of
God

Third, we take Peter’s words in 2 Peter 1:16-21, “16For we did not follow
cleverly devised myths when we made known to you the power and coming of our
Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 17For when he
received honor and glory from God the Father, and the voice was borne to him by
the Majestic Glory, "This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased," 18we
ourselves heard this very voice borne from heaven, for we were with him on the
holy mountain. 19And we have something more sure, the prophetic word, to which
you will do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until
the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts, 20knowing this first of
all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone’s own interpretation.
21For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God
as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.” We learn that scripture is
greater than any personal experience; even greater than seeing Moses and Elijah,
and seeing the transfigured Christ with our naked eyes. Scripture is more
reliable than that, and that no prophet just wrote his own words, but the Holy
Spirit carried him along. The Spirit moved the authors to write exactly what
they wrote, because it is all the word of God, and is more reliable than any
personal experience, even such an amazing experience than the mount of
transfiguration.

I understand that this could be seen as only relating to the Old Testament,
but Peter goes on to say in Chapter 3, and I think this is remarkably telling as
he is about to die, what is the last thing you would want to say? 2 Peter
3:14-18, “14 Therefore, beloved, since you are waiting for these, be diligent to
be found by him without spot or blemish, and at peace. 15And count the patience
of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you
according to the wisdom given him, 16as he does in all his letters when he
speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to
understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as
they do the other Scriptures. 17You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand,
take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and
lose your own stability. 18But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and
Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity.
Amen.” Peter connects Paul’s writings to the Word of God by calling it
scripture. They twist Paul’s words “as they do the other scriptures” This one is
remarkable. Peter connects Paul’s words to the entirety of the Old Testament by
calling it the other scriptures. And failure to do this will cause a lost of
stability and doing it will lead to your own destruction.

From this we clearly see that the whole bible is the word of God, not just
parts, but the whole. The gospel is not just found in the gospels, but is found
everywhere in the Old Testament, and in every chapter of the bible (Even in the
conquests of Joshua).

2 comments:

  1. I think your comments are right on the mark Ryan.

    I'd like to interact with this comment (from the Paradigm Shift): "First of all, Jesus himself referred to the scripture twenty-four times in the four gospels. In other instances, he called it either, the law or, the law and the prophets. He did not call the scripture the word of God...".

    Two points need to be made about this comment. First, When Jesus referred to the "Scriptures", He was indeed speaking of the Old Testament canon. The phrase "Law and the Prophets" (sometimes "Moses and the prophets") comprehends the entire Old Testament.

    Second, the Old Testament scriptures speak of themselves as the word of God. See for example Haggai 1:1 - "...the word of the LORD came by the hand of Haggai the prophet...".

    To argue that Jesus "did not call the scripture the word of God" is to (intentionally?)overlook exactly what these scriptures say. No Jew, least of all Jesus, would have understood the Old Testament to be anything less than the Word of God.

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  2. I agree. Another thing that I find interesting is Jesus' use of "The Law and the Prophets" as referring to the scriptures. (Matt 5:17, 7:12, 11:3, Luke 16:16, 24:44, John 1:45) This term was employed to refer to the entirety of the scriptures. Why is it that they don’t take it here, but they do take it when they read Matthew 22:36-40, “"Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?" And he said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets." They take it as all of scripture here, and misuse it to put us under the yoke of the law…which is the very thing they claim to liberate us from. (2 Peter 2:19)

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